Why hadn't John Alden married Mary before Sibley drove him off to war?

Haven't been active here in a long time, so hi guys. Anyways, I was recently rewatching the show and I just came across the scene where the Sentinel tries to talk Mary into suicide and she's all like - I'll go to hell and he tells her she won't because her pact with Satan is over, but that's where I was curious about other people's opinions... I for one never thought that just because her pact is over, she's spared from hell - this is the same woman who was the first witch in history to bring the Devil to earth; she engaged in Sabbaths, orchestrated dozens of blood sacrifices in the name of Satanism by manipulating the Puritans and has comitted various other atrocities. And these crimes won't just be forgotten in the afterlife because her pact is over - I doubt she'd be able to find peace in death after all she'd done. I mean, Mary was among my favorite characters, just because of the depth and Janet's talent, but somehow, I don't see her being spared from Hell. The show on the other hand stated the opposite numerous times.

So what are your guys' opinions on this? Do you think she's free from Hell... or that she's still destined for it?

If anyone remembers, the writers of salem said they had planned originally beyond season 3 to go deeper into the actual trials of salem, not just this devil/end of times story. Which had piqued my interest. Either they lied to us or changed their minds or their bosses had forced them to cancel the show. Either way, what we know from this knowledge, what do you all think would have happened if it went further? I know, I am a few years late on this post cause salem ended in 2017 I think but I figure I ask anyways to anyone still on here.

@JohnnyWarren, this is the fourth time I'm writing this ... It didn't appear when I tried to post it the first three times on your page I'm assuming you cut off the messages.

I'd give anything to see Mary thrive again. I'd even be willing to write season 4 myself as a novel and give it to braga and Simon to publish. They can even take the credit for it for all I care. I'd write Anne a redemption story and get tituba off the slave boat, assuming that's where she really is.

Any word on when season 3 will be available on DVD?

I finally watched Black Sunday and have officially completed the series. I know I'm late, but beter late than never....

I honestly don't even know what to say. The entire third season was messed up, but this final episode realy took the cake. Yes, Salem is a gloomy show and not one that you would expect to have a happy ending, but Black Sunday was just so ridiculously gloomy and depressing. And it's freaking hard to understand because we don't even know what happened to half the characters.

Was Issac killed the mob or did he somehow survive? Was Tituba actually sent to a personal Hell or was it just a vision? Were Mercy and Hawthorne strangled or did Anne someone decide to spare them at the last moment? Why do we not have a astraight answer to who actualy died?

And than there is Cotton... He had what was arguably the worst fate of all and it's just so ridiculously anti-climactic. I have never seen something so ludicrous to be passed off as the series finale. Cotton and Issac (as well as Gloriana) were literally the only people in the main cast who were not guilty of egregious crimes against humanity and they both were screwed over so horribly (especially cotton). The whole thing with Gloriana just ridiculous. A lobotomy? WTF?

Tituba went from being MAry's right hand lady to being a treachorous coward. Yes, I sympathize with her views on the colonialism because it is horrible what the Europeans did to the Africans, Native Americans, etc. but she ended up being such a pawn of the devil. I was so disappointed that she did not get closure. I honestly expected so much more of her and wanted her to see the light like Mary and Mercy did.

And than the whole episode was so ridiculously anti climactic. There was no big final showdown like what one would expect. The whole episode was so Anne-centric and she came off as such a spoiled brat. As many did, I was honestly hoping that Mary would somehow rise and face her dark past and come out as the strong, bold, person we saw in season 1 and season 2, but fighting on the side of good instead of evil. Yes, Mary does seem to be remorseful for her many attrocious crimes, but she  We didn't get to see her come out strong and valiant. Instead, we got a very weakened and frail Mary who runs away with her lover and it just felt so... anti climactic (Have I mentioned this term enough yet?). I wanted to see Mary back and better than ever (She is the Queen of the Night, after all!) and I wanted to see her stab Anne in the throat. Mary is much better than what we saw in Black Sunday. With or without magic , she is the strongest character on the show and Black Sunday did not do her justice at all. It made her look weak and desperate and like she was fleeing instead of standing strong.

And at this point, I'm just gonna say it... I HATE ANNE! Nothing against her actress, but Anne is just an outright spoiled brat. I honestly wanted to strangle her the entire last seaon. What she did to Cotton and Gloriana was just so fucking disgusting and I don't even understand why she killed Mercy (It's not even like she was a threat to her). To borrow some words I recently heard from an admin, the fact that Anne became so relevant in the end made me vomit. I could stand her when she was the sweet nice girl in the village in S1, and in S2 she was bearable until towards the end, but in S3, she was just an outright SPOILED BRAT TRYING TO PASS HERSELF OFF AS A BAD GIRL and how Satanic she became at the end was ... disturbing - even for Salem... And she even betrayed her own mother at the end. I was like WTF?

The Countess disappointed me because she comes off as such a hopeless romantic , craving the same jerk who has rejected her ten times over already. I honestly wish that she would have seen the light and turned from the devil, but she didn't.

I honestly think that the Man Who Was Thursday would have made a much better finale (the whole Essex sacrifice thing and Mary finishing off the devil was pure genius) with maybe some additional scenes, as well as making sure that Anne and the Sentinel were dead.

I have never seen something so horribly concluded in my life. This is not how a series is supposed to end. I'm not saying that we should have a sunshine and rainbows ending where the good guys win and everyone has a happily ever after and John and Mary get married and live in the manor for the rest of their days as the nobles of Salem and John Jr. is somehow brought back to life (free of the devil) and they raise him as a proper family, while Issac becomes a hometown hero and Cotton is reunited with Gloriana and they have their baby and Cotton reforms the fanatical puritans' views to be more tolerant and Mercy and Hawthorne get married, and Sebastian meets some nice girl and they settle down, etc. OBVIOUSLY A SHOW LIKE SALEM IS NOT GOING TO HAVE AN ENDING THAT POSITIVE, BUT THE ENDING WE DID GET WAS JUST SO UNBELIEVABLY BAD!!!! And I know that I'm not alone in feeling this way. I've seen so many others fans that feel the same way. WHO ENDS A SHOW LIKE THIS?????

The only thing I can think of to save it is if a fourth season somehow happens. We are currently living in an era of tv revivals (Fuller House, Roseanne, Raven's Home, Murphy Brown, Will and Grace, Gilmore Girls, etc.) and I definitely could see Salem getting renewed if a big enough demand happens. I hope it will. It's almost like the finale happened in a way that sets it up for a possible season 4 (the whole Anne planning on raising Gloriana's and Cotton's child to be the devil's vessel, etc.) Is Mary going to come back to stop the stupid B**** from bringing the devil back to earth???? I sure hope so. Someone needs to come back and kill Anne once and for all.

Thoughts? Opinions?

For me, in season 2, it was the Countess. It was such an interesting dynamic with Mary. She was a perfect antagonist and her philia with water as her signature element really clashed with our Queen of the Night, whose signature element is fire. Plus the whole England vs. Germany nationalistic rivalry is another big dynamic bvetween the two., especially when considering the historical rivalry between those two countries.

I love how the Countess speaks of being a queen and I love her relationship with MErcy before she ultimately sells her out (which I felt sorry for Mercy for).

Although I do find her philia with the Devil a bit disturbing, I wish that she would have seen the light and maybe joined Mary to work against him  (like her son did) rather than for him.

In Season 3, my favorite new character is easily the Essex Leader. I wish we could've seen more of her and her entire presence was awe inspiring. The way that she and the other Essex witches rejected the Devil and his powers and found new powers through the earth itself was very interesting. Her final episode (The Man Who Was Thursday) left me singing her praises. She easily had the best lines in that episode and was awesome.

When she and Mary were walking through the woods before the devil arrives, and they discuss the plan, she comes off as so badass and inspirational. It's like she's anticipating her own death. She knows she did wrong by serving the devil for all those hundreds of years and now wants to redeem herself in this final act she and the other witches are about to do that will give Mary the power to destroy him once and for all.

[To Mary]: "My child Mary: It is a grave hour I fear. Yet one of ultimate freedom. I am so proud of you."

[Mary replies]: "Would that this day had never come."

[To Mary again]: "The course of life is not ours to direct but the primordial right of the Earth. Hers is the only will we carry forth. She is indebted to you, as are we, Mary, for what you will do."

When she says that it is an hour of "ultimate freedom," you can just feel her power and what she's feeling. She's looking forward to death and is accepting it for the greater good. She knows that her spirit will finally be free.

And than her last words to the Devil...

[To Satan]: "Once you were the source of Mary's power. Not anymore. Now t'will be our power coursing through our sister. You've never understood the real meaning of sacrifice. Nor its power. No one may sacrifice another. Only themselves."

I thought that this ^ was easily one of the best quotes of the entire series. Her looking the Devil right in the eyes and telling him that he never understood the true meaning of sacrifice and that MAry's new powers are far superior to his, before she and the other Essex witches pull out their knives and impale themselves to complete the ritual that will give Mary the power to destroy him. So haunting and epic!!!!

Who are your favorites from s2 and s3?

What are your thoughts on the episode? What did you like? What did you dislike? Any thoughts that strike you on rewatch that you may not have had the first time you watched the episode? Is there anything in particular about the episode that you would like to discuss?

Please take care to hide any spoilers for future episodes.

Just for fun, the floor is also open for your nominees for the following categories:

MVP (Most Valuable Player)

MVW (Most Valuable Witch)*

Best Spell

Best Quote

Best Costume

Best Moment

Creepiest Moment

Most Heartwarming Moment

Funniest Moment

Worst Week

Note: If your nominee for MVP is a witch, please nominate a different witch for MVW.

If you don't have nominees for all categories, you are welcome to nominate for as many or as few as you like. Depending on the number of people who take part, the episode winner can be decided by vote or by consensus.

I had really the hope as they searched together for the malum...

Hello, I watched the series last year and became a big fan of Increase and Cotton. I didn`t like the ending of season 2. Not just because of Increase`s death also because the series became more and more tailored to the needs of the "sympathic" and "important" characters. Parents of Anne = death, Increase = death, Glorianna? Nothing new. I wished she would have stayed in the series and Cotton and her had to keep it secret for a while. Exspecially (was it in cat and mouse?) as Increase came more open to his son and they finally seemed to work together I hoped to see Cotton finally get the esteem of his fahter. And maybe become a strong witchhunter, not a whiney character. 

Those series had so many possibilties but in the end it was just to show a lot of erotic between John and Mary and of course they had to be together in the end. I stopped watching in the end of season 2 and read about the ending of season 3. 

Sorry if some expressions are wrong, but this is not my mother tongue. 

(Haha and I somehow love the idea to see some "feelings" between Increase and Cotton. Loved the kissing scenes.)